Meg (00:01.326)
We are so delighted today that we are joined again by our regular guest, Sam Smith. Sam, welcome back.

Sam (00:08.76)
Hi, good morning, Meg. Sorry. It's so nice to see you and be back on the podcast and I've got lots of stories and updates. Yeah, and I'm very happy to to see you.

Meg (00:19.716)
That's amazing.

Well, our moms have been absolutely fascinated by your journey, Sam. For those of you who haven't heard Sam's journey, Sam is a mom to quads. She also has a little boy, so she is now a mom to five. And the last time we've been tracking Sam's journey all the way through pregnancy and the last time we chatted, we had Kath McGaw on and we were talking about diets and so on in the last couple of weeks of a quad pregnancy, which was at around about 32 weeks. And since then, Sam's babies have been born and they

were of course in the neonatal ICU. And so when we were chatting, and I, decided that the best person to have on with us today is Professor Velma Lubbers. So welcome to you, Velma.

Welma (01:04.153)
Megan Sam and everybody that's listening in and thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to hear about Sam's journey and yes, great stuff. Four babies, five now. It's a huge task.

Meg (01:16.781)
It really is. And Velma, for those of you who don't know, is a professor of nursing at the University of the Northwest and is an incredible voice in the space of neonates and prem babies in particular. And she's our advisor on the Parent Sense app in this space. And so we invited her on today. And I think before we invite Velma to start sharing some wisdom, let's kick off with Sam, because Sam, I know that everybody is going to be absolutely fascinated with your journey.

Sam (01:17.122)
Yeah.

Meg (01:44.452)
and whether or not your, how your quads arrived exactly, did it go according to plan and how they're doing now.

Sam (01:51.183)
Thanks so much, Meg. Yeah, it's been quite the experience. at at the moment we've spent four weeks in the NICU and and I've shared the story with some friends and with Jan, my partner. We've sort of been looking back at at just reflecting on the past few weeks, but I haven't actually sat down to to speak about.

or take time and speak about the journey. It's we've been so busy and yeah, this morning I started just reflecting and and I also tried to keep a diary of things, but it did become a bit difficult to to find the time. But I'll take you back to it was a Saturday morning. So we went to sleep and we'll just even backtrack on the Wednesday we had our final appointment with the

Sonographer, and she checked the babies and it was getting so difficult to see everyone and do proper measurements, but she said everyone's looking good and the heartbeats are fine, and she was trying to do a a sort of measurement of the head for our lowest baby, baby one, but it was really difficult. She also tried a sort of vaginal scan, but it was just so hard to see things.

And then we also managed to fit in a a a photo shoot with our dear friend in that last few week or that last week on the Thursday and then the Monday actually, so about five days before they were born, I went in to the hospital to have the steroids for the lungs, for the baby's lungs. So I think we were just in time, you know, it it all happened within that week.

Meg (03:41.904)
Thank

Sam (03:43.118)
So I stayed over for one night at the hospital, which is also the trial run to stay away from Teddy by toddler. It was the first night in like three years that I spent the night away from him and he was, yeah, it all went well. And then yeah, by the end of that week we were feeling really chuffed and we thought, okay, we we can make it for two more weeks. Well, I was really hoping to get two more weeks and

The sonographer also checked my cervix and you know there wasn't any signs that it had shortened or anything. So I went to sleep feeling really good and so on. And then I was sleeping with Teddy, our toddler, and we had just bought him, you know, a nice bed, a double bed, and but I had spent like my whole pregnancy sleeping in this bed, which has a frame around it, and I woke up in the night thinking, I need to go to the toilet. And

And then also thinking, you know, one day I I'm gonna fall off the bed 'cause I had to crawl off and they'd climb down and and so I w went I went to the loo and just came back and I thought, okay, I'll just go back to sleep. And I just turned over onto my side and then it is like this little pup and my waters broke. And I thought, I I don't know, it is you know, it wasn't a tremendous sensation. It is it is

Meg (05:07.066)
Yeah.

Sam (05:08.418)
But the water didn't stop and I thought, what do I do? And I have to get up and and then I remember actually just feeling disappointed. I thought, no, this is not supposed to be happening and why now? And you know, if I could have gotten back into bed and just went back to sleep, I w I would have. But I remember thinking, Yeah, this is you have to g we have to go to the hospital now. And we didn't have any bags packed or anything. It was so

So silly actually, but we thought, okay, just take the charger and like some towels. And so I woke Jan up and then we just grabbed a few things and went to the hospital. It took us about 40 minutes to get there and the water yeah was still sort of flowing and so on. and then it was actually very peaceful. We got there about half past one in the morning and our

I had phoned the maternity ward and they got Al Gaini notified and he met us there. And he was he's always been so calm and yeah, just so relaxed, and he met us there and they did a scan and so and and then they also did a test to confirm that the waters had broken and and they said yes, it yeah, everything it was sort of the process was starting, but he checked.

the baby, so this baby number one who was the lowest, sort of near the she was at the bottom, and it was her waters that had broken. And she wasn't in distress or anything, but he said, Okay, it's not an emergency. They didn't have to do a C-section right away. But they had a bit of time, like a few hours to get the team to the hospital. yeah, so

And they said, Okay, we'll do it at eight o'clock. So we had about six, seven hours just to try and sleep. But I mean I didn't get sleep, but yeah. So we had some time and then he said, Okay, everyone's on board and yeah, and then by eight o'clock they wheeled me in and it was all sort of happening. Yeah.

Meg (07:26.584)
Wow, Sam, so how many weeks were you at this point?

Sam (07:30.357)
Yeah, so that was just over thirty one weeks. And it is supposed to be like two more two more weeks. And so the next you know, it is the twentieth yeah, we were it was just before Teddy's birthday actually, and I was thinking I was so hoping I just wanna get Teddy's birthday out of the way and, you know, the next week's just gonna be a normal week and so I I yeah, I was surprised. I just felt really

Meg (07:33.91)
Okay.

Meg (07:40.526)
Yes.

Welma (07:51.962)
Mm-hmm.

Meg (07:53.796)
Yeah.

Sam (07:59.766)
a bit dis you know, disappointed and I you know, I wasn't I wasn't wanting to feel disappointed but it's you know, this is probably also worried and just yeah and you know, wanting to just clam up a bit.

Meg (08:06.5)
Yeah, yeah. Natural emotion. Yeah, yeah.

Meg (08:15.042)
Of course, of course. think for many of us, we would have absolutely felt the same way, even if we didn't have quads and you had that added stress. So you get wheeled into this theater, which I remember when we were chatting last time, you said that they were going to keep all planned deliveries out for that day and it was just going to be your theater. So what actually happens now? How big is the team? How many midwives, how many pediatricians, how many obstetricians? What does this room look like for you now?

Sam (08:33.069)
Yeah.

Sam (08:43.991)
Yeah, so the first thing by Gaini did was he he tried to notify all of the like the original people or stuff members of the team. And so he came back and said, you know, everyone's available or I think I'm pretty sure it's it was the same team. And they were able to come in and I think doing it a bit later just gave be there. And

Welma (09:15.492)
Sam, did you know the team members? Did you meet them beforehand? Your Metwives and the neonatal nurses and the pediatricians, or were they all new to you when you arrived there?

Sam (09:24.695)
So I knew my Gaini and then Gaini assisting him with the delay. I also my first child and I knew one of the pediatricians. he's Teddy's pediatrician and then I had met the pediatrician that was going to be in charge of the quads in when I went to have the steroids done. But we didn't actually manage to visit the NICU or anything. And so, you know, that also wasn't

working out as planned and so we met a lot of new people and the anaesthetists we met for the same it was two anaethetists. and yeah, but then everyone else was quite new and so it is but everyone was so friendly and you know we we it was just this feeling of excitement and everyone was so encouraging and and happy. So I think being wheeled in, yeah, it was

Meg (10:21.925)
Mm-hmm.

Sam (10:24.157)
really nice and and lots of happy faces. I think there was about twenty, maybe just over twenty twenty to twenty-four people. and and yeah, everything went really well. I I think doing this spinal block took longer than I don't know, longer than before or what I remembered before. And so that was a moment, you know, was trying to like hunt over this pillow and trying to, I don't know, be in the right position, but it

Meg (10:30.896)
you

Meg (10:37.424)
well.

Meg (10:52.09)
Yeah.

Sam (10:54.333)
It it took so yeah, that y I think it was a bit of a struggle to get it in and then I was sweating and I think there was a little bit a moment of nerves for a few of us. And then but but thankfully, you know, I was worried about feeling nauseous or I don't know, change and just not being feeling well. But thankfully like I I'm I felt well and I remember they said if things aren't going good there might be the

Welma (10:55.374)
Yeah.

Meg (10:56.954)
Can you imagine?

Meg (11:10.233)
Yeah.

Meg (11:20.292)
Yeah.

Sam (11:24.001)
chance that they would, you know, put me completely under, but thankfully that didn't happen. And yeah, and then it it started. They said, okay, we're going to start. And and it was a yeah, lots of big, big feelings, like a very sensory experience. I remember even the smell of this, I think, like a laser cutter that goes through the the abdomen and and yeah and

Meg (11:53.157)
Yeah.

Sam (11:53.451)
And it moved really quickly the the process and they said all the babies were sort of bummed down. Their little bums were sticking out first and they also confirmed it was all girls and and the first baby well they all actually gave a sweet little cry when they came out. So that was really exciting and and everyone cheered and yeah, and and it moved so quickly. thankfully there weren't any

Meg (12:15.216)
So...

Meg (12:20.674)
Ugh.

Sam (12:23.702)
Well, from what I understand there weren't any like major emergencies and they were all doing well. But the team moved quickly to sort of make sure they were warm and I did get the one peed, she brought our first baby in just to say hi mom and gave I gave a little kiss and then yeah, they moved then quite quickly to the to the NICU. But yeah, we they confirmed it was all four girls and they were all fine and

Meg (12:32.964)
Mm.

Meg (12:45.936)
Hmmmm

Meg (12:53.178)
Yeah.

Sam (12:53.652)
Yeah, so that was the theatre experience. Yeah.

Meg (12:58.576)
Amazing.

Sam (13:01.812)
thank you.

Meg (13:02.116)
Well, Sam, it just feels like the right time to say congratulations on your four girls. It is really an absolutely remarkable story to their birth. You have been an incredible mother to date. It's just been wonderful to watch your journey. And so now they're in the neonatal ICU. And I guess at this point, Velma's expertise, it'll be wonderful as Velma can clock in as we go along.

So could you tell us, let's start with breathing and vitals and the basics. Has everything been according to plan then? Are there any questions on that?

Sam (13:33.332)
Yeah, so everything was according to plan and you know, I think us not visiting the NICU it it, you know, took us some time just to understand the terms and what everything meant and all the acronyms and so on. but I know that they were they started off on the CPAP. So they had like little mask over the nose, which we understood it wasn't like a, you know, very invasive device or anything. It was just over the

the face and they had you know the little like head headgear which which we also then realized it's actually very soft and and so on. So they were yeah and and then they had the different monitors and different lines up and so on and little drips. But they were all doing well. and the I know the

the team said I think the steroids w you know, we had it done just at the right time. So it really benefited us and the babies. yeah, and then I actually spent the first so that was Saturday morning and only by the Sunday, like midday, I think, once I was sort of able to walk and they had taken the catheter out and and I was able to go and visit them. They ac they

You can't go in with a wheelchair. So you have to be able to sort of walk and shuffle along to the Nikki. yeah. So that was also very strange just being without the babies. But we were doing little video calls and Jan was able to go in and and just check up on them. But it it was very overwhelming just to see and, you know, not knowing what to do and how to behave and or yeah.

Meg (15:29.218)
Yeah, Velma, is that a common feeling with moms, know, that kind of that introduction to the NICU? Can you talk us through that?

Welma (15:30.166)
It's just like

Welma (15:36.889)
Yes, absolutely. And I actually wanted to ask Sam and she she did answer some of it as well. On what did you do between having the cesarean section and actually seeing your babies for the first time? Because that's usually the stressful period. Even though you know they're okay, it's great that they're okay, but

Sam (15:47.552)
Yeah.

Welma (15:56.547)
As a mom, you will remember from the first time you probably wanted to hold them and you couldn't do that immediately. And that's usually where we find that that stress between we need to keep them alive and help them survive, but we want them with mom and with dad. So how did you navigate that space? How did that feel for you? How did you bring your husband in? What did you do to make it better?

Sam (16:13.832)
Yeah.

Yeah, and you know, it we had spoken about sort of having a plan and I I I heard like from previous things that I'd listened to a watch that, you know, the mom would send the husband like, just go with the babies and we hadn't really discussed all of those things. but we knew I think from before the birth we knew that okay, the babies are strong and we we believed that, you know, they they were strong and healthy and so I think and

Fortunately, the doctors confirmed, you know, they they're fine and they just need to be in the NICU now. And so we trusted the process and thankfully we also just we the nurses and doctors are so we just had a good feeling that we were in the right hands. and also they gave us a room that was right next to the NICU. So we didn't have to walk like a really

long, you know, these long hauls we were just like t a minute away or like thirty seconds, I think, you could just get to the NICU. So I knew that they were right there. And Jan was going in and out and sort of giving us giving me updates. And maybe in some ways it was also just switching off and, you know, trying to heal. I mean, I knowing that I couldn't get out of the bed or

I needed to recover and my mum was there and so I felt supported and and I must say the staff were so wonderful. So I felt safe but also in one in a way you sort of switch off like your natural instinct I think is to want to hold them, but yeah, I I've they weren't I wasn't able to. and so it was hard, but I knew that they were in the right place and

Meg (18:08.292)
Mm.

Sam (18:10.933)
Yeah.

Meg (18:16.568)
And end of Sam.

Welma (18:16.955)
And they are sorry, Gary move.

Meg (18:20.6)
And Sam, have you held them now? I mean, you're a couple of weeks down the line. How old are they and have you held them?

Sam (18:22.099)
Yeah. So they are four weeks now and I've held them. We've we did lots of skin to skin. and it went from just holding one or or even looking at it, looking at them and and then, you know, I would think, should I ask the nurse if I could hold them? Or, you know, you you sort of asking permission, but then we were able to like we got I think I got used to the nurses and we got to know each other and so you know you

Meg (18:45.168)
Aww.

Sam (18:51.913)
you've eventually settled into feeling comfortable and and so they would they're very encouraging. So we did skin to skin with one baby and then we tried with two and then with three and so on. So it is yeah that was wonderful. And also I've been able to try breastfeeding breastfeeding them. And so it's all gone well. So we've we've spent lots of time, lots of cuddles and

Yana as well. He's had lots of cuddles with them. Yeah.

Meg (19:24.88)
wonderful.

Wonderful. Well, I'd love to turn my attention to feeding. Velma, over to you.

Welma (19:28.687)
So

Yes. Yes. So what I hear is such a beautiful story, Sam. And I think we underestimate how important it is that you feel comfortable where you give birth with your team, that you feel safe in the NICU environment where you can really feel I can leave my babies here and focus on the healing. And those things aren't always just in place. A lot of times mums really need to struggle and fight through this and

build the relationships and advocate for their babies and so on. So it's wonderful for me to hear that that was just in place. Because I don't think we realize how much that boosted the rest of the situation. So having your babies being able to do skin-to-skin care already kickstart that breastfeeding. So it stimulates in you

the hormones that you need in the babies, the hormones that they need, both a morphine like hormones that you don't feel pain, but also this feeling good hormone. when and you'll remember that when you put them on you just feel differently. And that's so important because it makes you relax, it makes the milk flow. And it's so wonderful because you can actually make enough milk for all four of them. and it sounds like a lot, but

Sam (20:27.966)
Yeah.

Sam (20:36.991)
Yeah.

Sam (20:47.647)
Yeah.

Welma (20:54.255)
your body can do it and that's the wonderful thing. And doing the skin to skin is that first kick start doing it for them. And then the milk will come and when the milk comes and even if it's milk from a donor milk bank, it just gives your baby that first medicine that they need. And it's so wonderful to hear that they didn't need ventilation that they will find on the CPAP. Because again that's no invasive in invasive stuff in their face.

So you spoke earlier about that tactileness and the sensory stuff that they need that you know mm they sometimes struggle with, but it's so much less because of that start that we had. And sometimes the start is out of your hands, but you've done so much as a mum, doing the skin to skin, being there, doing the video calls, having Jan involved. So so I'm actually so excited about what you're telling me because that is not

Meg (21:50.137)
Mm.

Sam (21:50.399)
Yeah.

Welma (21:52.012)
always just happening. and in your case and quats it happened. So I'm I'm very excited for you on that. But how do you feel about the breastfeeding? Overwhelming? Ready for it?

Meg (21:54.295)
Yeah.

Sam (21:55.563)
Meg (21:58.609)
Yeah.

Sam (21:59.028)
Yeah. And I I was really I wasn't sure what to expect with the breastfeeding and I I really wanted to try and and the the nurses were very encouraging and, you know, wanting us to to try. And eventually it got by the yeah, by last week w I had tried with each baby and yeah, this is such a beautiful feeling and especially for the bonding.

I think in the first two weeks it is, you know, we didn't have much skin to skin or, you know, time. I I I would say also didn't quite know each one so well as I you know, I would would spend so much time looking at them. But there was definitely a huge boost in the feel good hormones and disconnecting with them. and I think when my

milk came in. So in the beginning we did they did receive the I can't remember it's the liquid like the high calorie liquid or in in the beginning and then they had donor milk while we were sort of waiting for the milk to come in. And then I was expressing colostrum. I was told not to try and do it before just in case I went into labor.

Welma (23:08.516)
Okay.

Sam (23:22.601)
But the nurse would come and help me and she would say, Is it sore? And I would say, No, it's not sore. But it, you know, it was getting used to that. Like, yeah, I I was just happy for someone to help. And then, yeah, and then my milk did come in and I started pumping and also went I you know, I I actually had a cracked nipple, which was so sore. And but I had someone to come and help with with that and

Welma (23:32.825)
Yeah.

Welma (23:36.825)
Different feeling.

Sam (23:51.007)
We found the right cream, just and it is also about the the phalanges, just getting the right size for for the nipple. so I think once all of that was out the way, the pumping journey was very fruitful. And so I've been on a a strict schedule. and yeah, but this there's also be

Meg (23:51.297)
yes.

Welma (24:17.863)
Yeah.

Meg (24:19.728)
And is your, on the feeding, is the schedule, I mean, how do you feed? Do you pump every certain number of hours and do you feed a baby from the breast alternating or how are you doing it?

Sam (24:29.818)
so I know that they are I think it's every three hours. They've they're being fed every three hours now. They still they have their feeding tubes and their noses now and and they're all off the oxygen. So and we sent in their bottles. So they get I'm not sure if it's like a full some of them can do a full feed on the bottle and then they get a top up with

the through the the tube. And then I think the second feed is like only the tube. And apparently it's too it's like we're doing a getting ready for a sort of long like a long race just to keep prov preserve their stamina and so they don't get too tired and so on. And then so like every second feed I could try and maybe breastfeed.

Welma (25:05.979)
Okay.

Meg (25:24.772)
Yes.

Sam (25:29.306)
so it's all about preserving their energy, which I now understand, and but they they're tolerating their feeds really nicely. Our one baby, Mabel, she's had a bit of issues with her tummy and so the tummy sometimes gets quite blurted or I wouldn't say distended, but and also she's vomited a few times, so they've tried her on a neoquate.

Welma (25:33.046)
Wonderful.

Meg (25:39.066)
Yeah.

Sam (25:59.496)
And she seems to be managing quite well on that. But I know I've I understand that, you know, we can still get her back on brace milk once her gut's a bit more mature. Yeah.

Welma (26:04.187)
Okay.

Meg (26:16.74)
Yeah, yeah. So I'd love to bring this round.

Welma (26:18.297)
And the benefit is you can breastfeed sorry, you are making the milk so you don't need to get the milk flowing again. It's just by switching her back to a different milk. So that's a huge advantage.

Sam (26:23.932)
Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Meg (26:27.128)
Mm. Yeah.

Velma, I'd love to talk a little bit about that experience. So Sam's obviously alluded to the fact that they haven't got as much stamina and kind of staying power and you don't want to exhaust them. There's also the sensory aspect that feeding is also a sensory experience. Can you talk to us a little bit about the sensory experience of the neonates and what Sam should be looking out for in terms of signals that they're ready to engage or ready to feed, that type of thing?

Welma (26:56.259)
Sure. And that's what I like what Sam said. It was such a nice experience. It was sensory a good place to start off with. So that's wonderful. I'm excited about that. But that's the same in the unit as well.

even though they are four weeks old now, they should have still been in the womb. So we would have still wanted that environment that's similar to the womb environment. So you probably would have picked up, they would have given them a little bit of more darkness when it's sleeping time. And you could put something with them which they will smell or which they will touch, which is soft and similar to the womb environment. And that's so much linked to the feeding.

So I don't know if they've told you in the unit to maybe take a breast pad and leave it in their crypts so that they can pick up that smell. and if you go home, even if you wore your nighties, then tomorrow you can't get attention to all of them immediately. So you can just put something that you slept with with them in the bed just to calm them for a little bit so that you can.

Sam (27:57.706)
yeah.

Welma (27:58.852)
Fix one of the others and then get get back to the the previous one, etc. So you can play around with it with a smell actually to help them to calm. But it also, especially Mabel that's on the new gate, if you can expose her to the smell of breast milk often, then whenever you want to switch her, it's gonna be so much easier because it's gonna be a good familiar smell to her. We that scrap, the heavy scrub and the alcohol that we use in the unit to keep our hands clean before you go in.

Sam (28:18.322)
Anything we have.

Sam (28:26.94)
Welma (28:28.893)
they don't like that smell and it takes their breath away. So that can be a negative smell and we always want to override that with something positive. Like just cuddling them what you are doing or leaving a breast pad with them. and then of of course what they are sucking on also plays a big role.

So it can be their fingers, which is good at this time. it can be your breast with or without milk. So it can be after you express just for them to suckle on something and learn the texture and feel how it feels and get that smell. And then when you go to bottles, then you want to choose something that's similar to the nipple. The size, the shape, how hard it is, those kind of things, because

Sam (29:05.001)
Okay.

Welma (29:13.717)
Everything you do now, at least until they are two months corrected age and even longer, sometimes they like that, is to get them to where they were in the womb. What would have worked in the womb environment, and we try to recreate that. And then you have that whole package of sensory environment. The sound, the the light, the touch is very important. the temperature and the pain, which is also included with the touch, so that nice firm holding.

They now need to get some injections or immunizations. If you can put them on the breast before the injection, for example, then they don't feel that pain. So that's that's small things which seems like icing on a cake, which is actually the important ingredients to make their whole environment better. But you're doing a lot of that already automatically. So you seem to be like this automatic bum. That's great. I'm excited about that.

Sam (29:49.822)
Yeah.

Sam (30:02.331)
Sam (30:06.506)
Well

Meg (30:11.28)
Sam, have you noticed that they respond better with certain sensory input and with certain sensory input they start to feel overwhelmed and give you signals that they are reaching the end of their capacity?

Sam (30:22.745)
I I think I'm more aware of the signals now. and so the the OT that comes in, we she sort of walks me through the the routine that she does with them and things to look out and she you know, always says asks them to put the lights off or dim the lights and keep the the lighting low. and yeah, so I think it I'm so I I'm I'm

Meg (30:31.044)
Yeah.

Meg (30:47.94)
Yeah.

Sam (30:51.271)
hungry for tips and you know it's I find it so fascinating as well. and it feels good to try and advocate for them and you know just not feel bad about making a request and so on. and I think yeah I I sort of find myself looking at their faces and trying to see, you know, what do they look like? Do they look relaxed and I think the touch and we're aware of

you know, it's firm touch. And I was telling Jan, you can't do like little spider tickles. Like no one likes a spider walking on you. Like yeah, yeah. So it's it's interesting. And yeah, and and one thing I I was actually thinking of and I forgot to share that we did have a bit of a health not a health scare, but our toddler.

Welma (31:30.363)
No

Meg (31:30.424)
Yes.

Sam (31:46.514)
Around his birthday, he started feeling a bit unwell and looking sort of bit feverish and we thought, no, like what is this? And he just got four little dots around his mouth and we thought, Okay, you know, is this like hand exactly? And and but it was only four dots, and then I put like a little I actually put some apno cream on it and it went away. But then we had him at the peed and he said it could be intravirus.

Meg (32:00.139)
coxsacky virus.

Welma (32:13.595)
Wonderful.

Sam (32:14.461)
But it looks we couldn't see anything else. And then my hands, I always get eczema from the or like an eczema filera from the hand wash and the sanitize. And I was trying to sanitize between touching every baby and my hands looked so bad. And then I started getting like blisters on my hands. And I thought, you know, what is this? So I ended up getting intro yeah, introvirus, which they said was like hand, foot and mouth.

Welma (32:29.827)
Mm-hmm.

Meg (32:34.48)
Yeah.

Meg (32:39.372)
wow.

Sam (32:44.659)
So I spent a good few days at home and like nursing myself. And then it it actually turned out that two of the babies also contamin got intravirus, which was, you know, I think we just went from feeling so devastated and worried and you know, what does this mean and learning about the virus and so on. But thankfully there weren't

Meg (32:54.032)
Ohhhh

Welma (33:02.68)
Okay.

Meg (33:02.904)
Wow.

Meg (33:09.604)
Mm-hmm.

Sam (33:10.961)
like major symptoms for them. Like it wasn't yeah. I think this the symptoms you would normally see weren't there, but they did test them for it. So I think it it came up in the test. and then I'll I've mention mentioned her earlier, Mabel. She actually so a part I think the tummy sent some alarm bells off with the doctors, her tummy being so bloated and

Meg (33:12.772)
Mm-hmm.

Meg (33:17.754)
Mm.

Meg (33:24.898)
Okay.

Wow.

Sam (33:40.487)
And so on. And then I think in one of the routine blood tests they did pick up a virus and it turned out to be from her line. and they they actually they even gave her they had to do a lumbar puncture on her, which is so a bit stressful, but it turned out to be like a hospital virus. Like what is it? It's a klebsiella.

Meg (34:02.48)
Awesome.

Mmm.

Sam (34:09.666)
but thankfully they caught it right in time and it they were they could manage it with antibiotics and so on. So it's it I think I had sort of had blocked a part of the the trauma out and now you sort when you think about it, you re remember all of the scary things that did happen. but thankfully she's I would say she's recovered. We just have to monitor her and yeah.

Welma (34:10.191)
Mm-hmm.

Welma (34:14.658)
Okay.

Meg (34:33.112)
Yeah.

Sam (34:39.239)
But she's doing really well.

Meg (34:43.544)
Yeah, amazing. Well, Sam, you are just a remarkable mom. You know, I think for every mom who is a mom of a singleton, just the navigation of the hormones and the not knowing the signals and getting to know a new life and establish feeding, that's a journey. That's a big journey. It's not a small journey. And what you've had in addition to that is four babies. And actually,

Although you speak about that illness and that stage, quite matter of factly, it must be very, very scary. So, you know, I think you've, I think you really have navigated this incredibly. You've obviously got a very good village, both with the hospital and with Yian and your mom. And so, yeah, I mean, remarkable story of your little ones as they journey into our world. So, really appreciate you sharing it with our moms.

Sam (35:29.629)
Thank you. And you know

Welma (35:33.691)
Absolutely. Yana, I can just congratulate you.

Sam (35:35.113)
Thank you. And you know, I I must thank I think we have such a new and sort of everlasting respect for the the people that work with these small vulnerable babies. And, you know, I've seen how, you know, the shifts are so long and there's they c they always had someone with them and the day staff and the night staff and and I know it's we can see it's they're so passionate about it and, you know, they have hearts of steel and

Meg (35:38.032)
Hmm, yeah.

Meg (35:51.641)
Yeah.

Meg (35:59.536)
Mm.

Mm.

Sam (36:04.231)
I remember learning about the line and how long it was. And I came back telling my mom, I said, Do you know they have a line going up the ankle that's over twenty centimeters and my you know, we couldn't believe it and and but they're so yeah, they they have to do all of the I think really difficult things and and make the parents feel settled and secure. So it's it's we're so happy and blessed to have

Welma (36:20.005)
Ha ha.

Meg (36:25.946)
Yeah.

Sam (36:33.553)
Such remarkable stuff and yeah.

Meg (36:39.663)
Yeah.

Yeah, I love that. I I think we don't actually say enough about the nurses and the support staff who really do. And I also think, Sam, unfortunately in South Africa, it's kind of only happens in hospital and it doesn't come home with you. Whereas countries like, I think Jan might be from the Netherlands, I'm not sure, but countries like the Netherlands, from Germany, I mean, many of the European countries have got support services like health visitors who go in after the baby's born and

Sam (36:57.417)
From Germany.

Meg (37:10.084)
We don't have that in South Africa. And I think it really can't be stressed enough that these incredible women who support us are missing in our lives once we get discharged. And I'm glad you've got it there. Yeah. And Sam, I guess before we switch off and we will definitely chat with you again, can you tell us how much they're weighing now and when you expect to be able to take them home?

Welma (37:19.617)
True. Absolutely true.

Sam (37:29.725)
Yeah, so they are all I would say over one point eight, like around one point nine. And our biggest baby, Nico, she weighs yesterday she weighs weighed two point two. So she's she's the she's a big girl and she was the one with her yeah, there's so much to tell you. So she had her own placenta, which I think is she's bearing all of showing all of the

Meg (37:50.167)
Wow!

Welma (37:57.65)
Ha ha ha.

Sam (37:58.653)
benefits of that. and then the others are not far behind, but around 1.8, 1.9. And they were born between 1.3 and 1.4. So those were the the birth weights at 31 weeks. yeah. Yeah.

Meg (38:16.976)
Okay.

Yeah.

Welma (38:20.064)
That's good white. Hmm.

Meg (38:22.36)
Yeah, yeah, amazing. Well, when do you think you'll be going home in about another two or three weeks?

Sam (38:24.942)
I I think so. They haven't the doctor hasn't sort of said yet. No. And I did I took a chance and asked one of the nurses, like, what do you think? And she said, Yeah, around maybe two weeks. I was thinking that, you know, may I was waiting for them to say, Maybe we'll take out the feeding tube, but I I hear that that isn't really a sort of

Meg (38:34.832)
Committed. Yeah.

Sam (38:51.94)
marker for when they would go home. Apparently you just do that a few days before they would go home. so we're hoping for about two weeks. Yes.

Welma (39:01.177)
They are too yell. So they need to be off oxygen. They need to be off oxygen off antibiotics. And don't use medication that helps them to breathe. Sometimes they they forget to breathe or their heart just glowers. So they need to be off that c medication for at least a week just so that we can see that they are doing okay. And then usually the general guideline is when you you

Sam (39:16.434)
Yeah.

Welma (39:30.041)
When they should have been born is the the date that we are aiming at to send them home. But if they're doing so well like these ones sounds like they're doing, then you get off a week or two that you can go home with them earlier. And then it depends on whether you as parents feel ready and safe to take them home. That's also a very important criteria, because if you don't feel comfortable taking them home, then you're just gonna end up back in hospital.

Sam (39:41.126)
Okay.

Sam (39:58.246)
Yeah. Yeah. It's I I I when I asked the nurse, you know, I I was thinking I I wasn't sure what she was going to say, but then when she did say, maybe two two more weeks and then you do or I've I felt like, No, that's too soon and you know, we you know, it it felt like we're not ready to say goodbye. It which is a strange feeling that you do get used to everyone and and being so supported, yeah.

Welma (39:59.343)
But I don't think that's a problem with you. Does it sound like it?

Meg (40:02.64)
Yeah. Yeah, amazing.

Welma (40:19.811)
Yeah.

Meg (40:25.189)
Yeah.

Meg (40:30.628)
Yeah, amazing. Well, Sam, it's been wonderful tracking your journey. Thank you so much. And we'd love to chat to you in their home. And please post some pictures on Instagram of them because they are waiting to see.

Sam (40:36.716)
Yes. I we got some good ones from this weekend, so I will Yeah.

Welma (40:43.774)
Mm-hmm.

Meg (40:48.41)
That's wonderful, excellent. Well, thank you so much, both Velma and Sam for joining us today. It has really been amazing to follow your journey, Sam. Thank you.

Sam (40:53.256)
Thank you. And thank you so much, Valmer, for all of your wonderful advice. And yeah, there's so many things I didn't know. And and thank you, Meg, for having me.

Meg (41:07.482)
Pleasure, thank you both.

Welma (41:08.003)
It's a pleasure. Just enjoy them and enjoy that mum being mum.

Sam (41:09.948)
Yeah. Thank you.

Meg (41:13.741)
Excellent. Thanks, ladies. Don't go off because we're just going to wait for it to upload. Madge will come back and she'll close off the recording.

Welma (41:16.368)
Yeah.