Meg Faure:
Welcome to this week’s episode of our podcast where we dive into the heartwarming and impactful world of Caitlyn de Beer. Join us as we uncover the inspiring journey of this life coach, author, and speaker who is transforming the lives of mothers everywhere. It is amazing because Caitlyn is now pregnant with her third little baby and we really do talk a lot around that journey.
It was a fertility journey and it’s super interesting. But in addition to that, you can expect to learn a whole lot of things. Firstly, the importance of building a village and why creating a strong support system is so crucial for maintaining your health and well-being.
We talk a little bit about mindset shifts for maternal wellness and Caitlyn explores her approach to enjoying the slow moments of motherhood and how to set realistic expectations so that you can really embrace this joyful journey. She also talks about her challenges personally with her fertility journey and this was baby number three and the first two were not fertility treatments, this one was. And although she does recognise that that fertility journey will be different from somebody who’s expecting their first baby, it really is a very interesting look at what that journey is like.
And then also Caitlyn talks a little bit about her faith journey and so it’s a really wonderful episode. It’s filled with insights and just the camaraderie of being part of a motherhood community. So do join us and tune in for Caitlyn’s inspirational story.
Bailey Georgiades:
Welcome to Sense by Meg Faure, the podcast that’s brought to you by Parent Sense, the app that takes guesswork out of parenting. If you’re a new parent then you are in good company. Your host Meg Faure is a well-known OT, infant specialist and the author of eight parenting books.
Each week we’re going to spend time with new mums and dads just like you to chat about the week’s wins, the challenges, and the questions of the moment. Subscribe to the podcast, download the Parent Sense app, and catch Meg here every week to make the most of that first year of your little one’s life. And now meet your host.
Meg Faure:
Welcome back mums. It’s really lovely to have you join us here today and I’m super excited that we’ve got a guest who I’ve become quite familiar with over many years. It’s Caitlyn De Beer.
And Caitlyn and I first connected because she was running a programme for mums to get fit after pregnancy and I got involved and spoke on her podcast. And then later, Caitlyn, who’s a mum of two and a really deep and strong Christian with a very deep faith, wrote a beautiful book called Walk Out on the Water and more recently another book called Deeper Still, which are daily devotionals. She is involved in an NPO and charities called Pass the Panties in the Natal Midlands area.
And just really everything that she does is so impactful in her life from working with mums pregnant and want to get fit through to raising her own children through to making sure that little girls have panties and then of course coming alongside mums in their faith journey. Caitlyn really does have an incredible impact on other women. So Caitlyn, I am very, very grateful that you are here with us today. Welcome.
Caitlyn De Beer:
Thank you, Meg. Yeah, it’s crazy to hear that long story of like how long we’ve actually, I mean, Noah was when I started that I was pregnant with Noah. So that’s 2017. So my second child, I mean, so yeah, when we did things. So yeah, it’s great to be chatting here.
Meg Faure:
Yeah, and it was awesome. You ran a group at that time where mums could get fit, but also have a look at their personal mental health. And I know that you’re not as much involved on the fitness side anymore, but very much involved as a life coach and author and a speaker.
And you’ve kind of really dedicated a lot of your life to maternal mental health and, you know, being alongside other women. And you have two of your own absolutely beautiful children. And very recently, I saw on your Instagram profile, which for those of you who want to go and look up Caitlyn, it’s Caitlyn De Beer. It’s her Instagram profile. But I saw that you had gone ahead and had another pregnancy. So you’re pregnant again. And I was super excited, congratulated you. And I said, let’s chat about that journey. So that’s kind of what we’re going to be talking about today.
Caitlyn De Beer:
Cool. Yeah, it’s very exciting. It’s obviously a huge gap, but intentional. So yeah.
Meg Faure:
What will your gap between Noah and the new little one be?
Caitlyn De Beer:
So Noah is seven and a half, but they will be close to eight years apart. And then my daughter’s nine. She’s just turned nine. My kids are just over a year apart. So eight and nine years, which is crazy because I feel like I’ve just had them. And now that’s big.
Meg Faure:
And were those two pregnancies, were they spontaneous pregnancies or were those also IVF pregnancies?
Caitlyn De Beer:
No, so they were spontaneous. And we did take 22 months to fall pregnant with Sarah. So it was a long journey. And what came up now as our issues was the same issues from back then. But then it was 10 years ago. And I was in my mid-twenties. So it’s very different, I think, and your body’s different 10 years later.
But yeah, so we didn’t, because I was so young, I suppose we just didn’t really explore IVF. We just didn’t have to yet. And then eventually fell pregnant. And then the next year I fell pregnant with Noah. Sarah was seven, eight months old. So it was just, well, the same year. Gosh, that sounds dreadful. The same year I had Sarah. And it was as crazy as it sounds. But yeah, so those were both natural. I was on Clomid for Sarah. And so obviously that sort of brought it, allowed me to ovulate. But I was on it for eight months. So it wasn’t like this quick fix thing. But this one was more of a fertility journey, yeah.
Meg Faure:
And so this one, obviously, is not a surprise pregnancy. This was very much a planned baby. When you decided to have number three, after how long did you start to think that you need to look at having an IVF or a fertility treatment?
Caitlyn De Beer:
So I’ve had this, I mean, as you know, and just to sort of catch people up a bit, I’ve had a pelvic issue, sort of like a nerve issue. I wish I could name it and say that I actually know what was wrong with me, but we don’t still. So for a number of years, I had to catheterise full time. And I couldn’t walk much at all, even to like my kitchen. And it was being treated with various things, and nerve blocks, especially. And so I’d been told that it would be so unwise to ever have a pregnancy again. So that was sort of where we were at for a number of years. Otherwise, we would have done this sooner.
And then in 2022, I had a procedure done where they killed the nerve down my right side. And it was like a trial. They’ve never done this before, and it fixed me. So that was amazing. And after that, I decided to see a gynae and see what they would think. Madness, I know. But anyway, so we tried for a year from then. So that was September 23. The op was done in 22. But obviously, we didn’t know how long it was going to last, would it last, all those questions.
So September 23, we started trying, thinking, if anything, we’d waited so long just to start trying that like this would happen so quickly, because surely God was in this. But life doesn’t always work like you think it will. And so yeah, it was exactly, I think, a year, 2024. I can’t even think where we are. We ended up falling pregnant. Yeah, so maybe about eight, nine months that we then started thinking, should we just look into actually what’s going on? And why are we not falling pregnant.
And I was also weighing more than I had with my previous two. And I don’t mean in an overweight way. I mean, that I was probably underweight with my first two. And I was running competitively. And yeah, I’m just super fit. And so I think that was harder for my body to do what it was sort of naturally meant to do. And now this time, I was like five kgs heavier. So I just assumed everything would just go smooth. And it wasn’t like that. Yeah. So so close to a year. But obviously, this was different because it was our third and the gap was getting bigger and bigger. So we sort of rushed it, if anything, I suppose, in seeking help, you know.
Meg Faure:
So what did your journey consist of? Did you look at Clomid and did it result in the end in an IVF treatment or how far did you need to go?
Caitlyn De Beer:
Yeah, so how it actually ended up, it ended up that we went to full fertility, because my husband is actually more of the problem than I am, which we’ve known when we were trying for Sarah, but I don’t know, you just forget, then you have children and you find, you know, so but this is a problem that gets worse with age. And my husband’s 42 or 43. I can’t even tell you which one we in that age group, but I’m not that old. I’m 35. So it wasn’t too old, but they still call it geriatric.
And so when we went to get those things tested, they basically told us this was at a fertility clinic in KZN, which we paid the full price. I’m not here to promote anyone else’s services. But when I say they were phenomenal, I can see why people fly here to do it. I cannot tell you what this place was like and how, just how held we felt from the moment that you walk in there. The first receptionist, it’s like a hospital, you know, these fertility clinics, so they’re like 20 receptionists at different stations. Every single one acts as if they’re your best friend and call you lovey and darling and check in with you every three minutes because they actually are there to care.
It was, yeah, so we we ended up having to do something called ICSI, which is like, I don’t know, for choice of a better word, IVF. It’s just like specialised IVF. So IVF, I think, is often done when the woman’s the problem, from what I understand. And so then they put like, I imagine, you know, all these petri dishes, but supposedly lots of sperm in a petri dish and then, you know, an egg that then can find which sperm is strong or whatever that means.
ICSI, which we did, they had to choose a sperm. So I imagine them picking one, you can’t even see it. So literally, and then they put those together. So it is a like exact match. It’s not like as to which chooses which and the strongest will win. This is because the sperms are the problem. And so I say that and then, you know, the IVF journey is hard. And so you do the whole IVF journey, it’s just the sperm part’s different and that they chose the sperm.
And then I had my egg retrieval done, supposedly with my husband being the problem. And my brother-in-law is an embryologist. So I know the field relatively well from him, and we hear everything through him. And he would say, ideally, you want 20 eggs. And we got five eggs, and that’s all they got. So like, supposedly I wasn’t the problem. And suddenly now we were going, okay, I’m sorry to my husband that we’ve made you sound like you’re the problem. Clearly, I’m a problem.
And then the eggs were really bad. So I’ve even forgotten what you call it. I think it’s called level three. So that’s like the worst, I think. And then mine was CC graded. So like, A, A, A, B, B, B, you know. And so my brother-in-law actually even said to me for my transfer date, because you’ve got to wait until on the day to know if any take. So we got four sort of follicles, whatever they called. And then you wait until on the day to know if any are ready for you, or if they’ve all, you know, aren’t good, or whatever the word is. And he just said, Katie, prepare yourself and almost have like a plan for the day of what you’re going to do if it doesn’t happen, because it’s really not a good result, you know. And then you’ll do another round.
And he was like all positive. But we weren’t. Because it was our third, we really had decided that we were going to do this once and would then let it go, which was so difficult, even said aloud. But yeah, and then we got one. So we were so lucky in the process. Gosh, you don’t even know what to call it. Because it’s like, but it’s also like it was so rare. Apparently, according to Dylan, it’s really not normal. You’ve met my brother-in-law. And, and yeah, and it’s not normal to from that, you know, to have only five eggs. And for some people, I think it’s encouraging to hear that because you then start writing it off, as if not going to happen. Yeah, to protect yourself. And there’s so much of that actually in the journey of just knowing how much hope to have and not have.
Meg Faure:
Yeah, talk to me about that. Because I mean, that emotional journey for any woman going through fertility treatment, whether it’s your first baby, and you’ve lost many babies along the way, or whether it is your third, and you know that this is your last chance. I mean, it is a serious and of course, everything in between. It’s a really massive emotional journey. Can you speak a little bit to what women go through and how you dealt with it?
Caitlyn De Beer:
Yeah, I think Meg, I feel like almost like speaking into the space, but obviously, I knew we would. But I think being my third, I am, I already have my two children. And so, and I really want this third to the point that like, I have tried so hard to give up wanting a third. I can’t even tell you how like, over the years of just being like, no, we don’t know we don’t. And two days later, I’m back to thinking of it again. But I think if this were your first, and yeah, I think it I think it would have felt very different to what it felt like for me. And so that’s why I say I feel almost like a fraud, because mine felt like an additional, not like, like life or death in terms of what it would feel like, I imagine, at least for your first.
But in saying that, and we obviously took a long time to fall pregnant with our first as well. And then this time around, and so if I’m honest, I found and this is truly just my experience, I found the IVF process comforting, in that you could let go of this like constant waiting, which I just found the amount of pressure you put on yourself in that time of trying to fall pregnant, you know, it’s just dreadful. In that year alone, I’d taken like 20 to 30 pregnancy tests, because I’m about to start my period, but I’ll take a pregnancy test just in case. And then it’s an hour late, you know, and I’m taking another one. And then I’ve got my period, and I’m still thinking, but what if some people can have a period and still, you’re just so desperate to find that, that the IVF for me almost took the control away from me. And I found comfort in that.
And that’s not going to be everyone’s journey, of course, but for me, I found helpful that they were saying, do this on that day, do that on that day. And I could stop putting the pressure on me and my husband and looking for problems. And yeah, I found at least I found that the first few months, obviously, injecting is hectic. And yeah, and I just imagine all those mums out there that are doing this on their own without a man, you know, or, or someone living at your house, you could do it. So at first, Hendrick did do the injections for me. And then I got over it he left late or early for gym one day or something. And I thought, you know what, I’m just going to do this to myself. And I got comfortable just doing it. And you, you know, you just get on with it.
I think that all sort of adds to, I spoke to my cousin who’s done this twice. And well, both children are IVF children. And then she in between, you know, didn’t take and so on. And she just said, are you finding it lonely? And I think that, yeah, if I had to comment from an emotional perspective, I would say that’s probably the biggest thing that you find. And perhaps they like support groups and things out there that being my third, I was I was so focused on a million other things at the same time. And we tried to keep it from our children. We still haven’t told them actually, and more because we’ve just had to have the chat. So to now have to try and explain that actually don’t have to do that gross thing. Sarah calls it that gross thing. Not even really, but so we kept the injections from them. So it felt almost lonely.
Yeah, because I felt like I had to secretly make sure that they weren’t awake yet. Because being seven and eight at the time, they are definitely aware enough to, you know, know what was going on, so I had to sort of do it. And then you’re so tired. And especially I was put on a very high level of progesterone, which I really struggled with. The meds can make you feel horrible. So all of that together with the loneliness of like, no one even knows you’re doing this. You do your injections, maybe in the morning at lunchtime, whatever your journey is, and then you go out and no one. Yeah, no one knows just yeah. And like almost every two days, I was having to drive for some new whatever comes next.
Meg Faure:
And it is a real journey.
Caitlyn De Beer:
Yeah, it’s not and lonely for sure. And I think maybe that’s where mums where it’s an earlier pregnancy, to ensure that you’ve got the you know, that support around you could make a big difference. Because sure, if I was finding it lonely with the like busy, fun, active life we live with our kids as it is, then I think it would be that much worse as well.
Meg Faure:
Yeah, no. And I mean, you mentioned a few words earlier on where I think you said something along the lines of it was his problem. What was my problem? Or, you know, and you kind of, you’re almost in the way that you said it, and I know it wasn’t intended, it was almost assigning blame. And I think that’s a lot of and clearly, it wasn’t like that for you. But it’s a lot of what happens is that there’s this guilt, like, is it my problem? Am I the issue? It’s you, it’s your problem, you’re the issue. And so there’s this, between the couples as well, there’s the pain for both of you, of not having the pregnancy as and when you want it, of having this beautiful baby, as and when you want to bring, but there’s also the, whose fault is this? Where does this sit? And it’s just such a really emotionally laden issue for so, so many people.
Caitlyn De Beer:
And yet Meg, when I speak to Dylan, my brother-in-law who is an embryologist and he now works in London, he was in Cape Town, so he’s at the moment one of the top egg freezers in the world at age 29 or whatever, and he will tell you that the later rounds of IVF are more successful and so keep trying. And yet, as you know, my brother is gay, so he’s married to my brother, and they lost two babies last year through the same process. So he feels it now, like he gets it, and he knows that if you are able to find it in yourself and the money, which is a whole another ballgame, that, yeah, and I think that’s so hard in itself is to say like it might have failed, but actually trying again could be our best bet, but what if it’s not, and do we, and all that emotional stress and financial stress, it’s, yeah, it’s just a lot.
Meg Faure:
It is, it really is a lot. It is such a huge amount. So this was a very different experience from that perspective than your first two pregnancies, because your first two pregnancies were spontaneous. Eight months is probably the average nowadays that people take to fall pregnant, as far as long as it felt for you, it probably is what people take to fall pregnant. But now this time around, you’ve got a whole lot of other perspectives. Of course, you now have the perspective on the IVF and fertility journey, but you’re a seasoned mum, and I’m interested to know how are you managing this pregnancy, this journey, your expectations for this baby differently from, for instance, with Sarah?
Bailey Georgiades:
This episode is brought to us by Parent Sense, the all-in-one baby and parenting app that helps you make the most of your baby’s first year. Don’t you wish someone would just tell you everything you need to know about caring for your baby? When to feed them, how to wean them, and why they won’t sleep? Parent Sense app is like having a baby expert on your phone guiding you to parent with confidence. Get a flexible routine, daily tips and advice personalised for you and your little one. Download Parent Sense app now from your app store and take the guesswork out of parenting.
Meg Faure:
I’m interested to know how are you managing this pregnancy, this journey, your expectations for this baby differently from, for instance, with Sarah?
Caitlyn De Beer:
Gosh, it’s so different, Meg. I think it’s like 10 years later since I was pregnant with Sarah, and I feel like I’m a completely different person. I can’t even imagine, yeah, doing this at that stage now. I’d love to say that I’m not buying anything because you can get away with not using anything. I’m like doing the opposite. I finally have money. This child could actually have a nice baby. No, I’m teasing, but yeah, I think I would say the greatest sort of perspective that I’m going in with, and just reading your questions earlier, is again and again, this is what I tell, is that I’m not going to rush anything, and I’m not meaning in terms of the baby because the baby, sometimes you do want to rush a season because it’s exhausting, and I actually mean in terms of me as a mum.
I think there was so, well, not there was because there probably still is for first-time mums or second-time mums. I actually found sometimes more pressure with my second to get out there and bounce back and be in the coffee shops. Now, I’m like, as soon as I was trying for the third, everyone knew that I wasn’t going to buy a new compactum. I was going to get a TV put into our bedroom instead, and I haven’t done it yet, but I was just like, I just want to take the slow because I think the greatest thing I’ve learned is you have no idea how easy it’s going to get, and that’s not to say parenting gets easier because it doesn’t, it’s different, but the raising young kids thing is so full-on, and then just suddenly it isn’t, and mine, I mean my son is seven now, like it’s really not old, and most days, like today, I’ll fetch between two and three from school, and they don’t go to aftercare. That’s a normal day, and then you’ll still have sports somewhere else anyway, and she has 15 sports too, but already it’s 2 p.m., and so I think to just take those years easy on yourself, those early years, knowing that your time is going to come back again.
You will have time to build that company. You will have time to whatever, exercise again. I mean, obviously, it’s harder to lose the weight later on, and, and, and, but just that pressure. I don’t want to prove anything this time around. I have no like big, big goals of wearing a cossie by December or whatever, you know, my baby seeing the world. Oh no, this baby’s going to stay perfectly put in its home for as long as it can without even leaving the house, and I think that’s my biggest sort of lesson has just been that you can just drop all of that, and the baby doesn’t know any better, and home is probably the best in terms of routine, which I was big, you know, will be again, and, and, and I don’t have to prove anything to anyone.
Meg Faure:
Yeah, yeah, I know, and you know, it’s, it is a relief, and I think very often we do. We try and rush through things. We try and be goal-directed. We try and get out there, get our bodies back, get back at like, as you say, on the coffee runs or whatever it is, and actually to realise that, you know, kind of that ancient theory of cocooning with your baby and taking it slowly is, is just a little bit more gentle for you and for your baby, and I certainly didn’t do that with my third, sadly, because she was born into a situation where I had just started BabySense, the company that I built and then sold over 10 years, and literally the day that I sold my first cuddle wrap was actually the morning that I found out that I was pregnant with number three, and in retrospect, I’ve often looked back and wondered if I should have shut the business down overnight, you know, because you, you kind of feel like it’s already too far down the line, but of course, if you only sold your first cuddle wrap, it’s not too far down the line, because she was kind of brought up alongside another baby, which was, which was BabySense, and I didn’t take it slowly. I didn’t embrace. I did wish away the time, and I didn’t just fully absorb who she was and that slowness of matrescence, and so yeah, I think that that’s an amazing attitude to take, and it is something you want to say to new mums, like just don’t wish it away, don’t, just slow down, take care of yourself, and yeah, go slow.
Caitlyn De Beer:
And Meg, I think that’s normal what you’re speaking of. I think not everyone can slow down, or not everyone can, you know, whatever that means for them, so I don’t think it’s normal, so my gap is so big that I am in a very different phase with my older two, so it’s, I’m not running around like I was, although from 2 p.m. until 6 p.m. I certainly will not be around, but yeah, but it’s, and, and I think also to not fear, to not fear rushing the baby, because, because sometimes you do want to, I had terrible sleepers, or as you know as well, Adidas, and, and I, that you do want to rush, because it, and that’s normal as a mum, you know, if you’re not sleeping to, to wish away that season, but just for yourself to be like, I don’t have to look a certain way at this point of motherhood, there’s, there’s so much time to come that, you know, I just, I think we’ve totally think now our life is all around our kids, but the truth is, like 18 years, my daughter’s nine now, so we’re halfway, and I can tell you, it feels like I had her yesterday, I can’t, and I know your kids don’t leave, and I know you’re still super involved in your kids’ lives, but just in terms of them being under your roof, 18 years is very short, and then you’ve still got a very long life to do all that.
Meg Faure:
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Caitlyn De Beer:
Yeah, let’s see, I have all these ideas, let’s see what happens, because I, yeah, I’m not very good at sort of lying around and watching series during the day, but that sounds nice.
Meg Faure:
Yeah, and, and tell me your life coaching, are you still very involved in that space?
Caitlyn De Beer:
So, yes and no, I think I’ve, I’ve really adjusted my career with, with the life stage that I’m in, so when I had my two, and obviously close together, I found that incredibly difficult, and so that’s when I sort of launched this course for mums, and helping them, basically helping myself, and then helping them to like themselves again, and to find themselves again, especially in those first couple years, probably four or so years, where you like, who am I, I’ve totally lost myself in this child, and I don’t even know what I’m good at anymore, let alone, you know, and all that guilt, and, and all those things, so I ran that full, full on back then, now it’s available just as a course that people can buy and do on their own, so it’s all pre-recorded, and I still get sales all the time, I’m just not walking the road with them as much, although it was done in a group setting, so it wasn’t online in a group, but now they’ve got the resources themselves, and can do it whenever they want, so that’s still available.
Coaching, I coach here and there, it depends how much capacity I have, if I’m honest, and whether I actually feel, yeah, so at the moment I’m coaching a lot, I think I’ve had like more than 25 clients, and we’ve only been back into like our reality for three and a half weeks, so a lot, and I just opened it up, and they mostly went off, so it’s lovely, I have such a variety of people that just want someone to talk to, and so I suppose it’s something like counselling, yeah.
Meg Faure:
Yeah, and what is your, I mean, if you think about women’s mental health, and this was obviously part of your coaching course, you know, kind of what, what do you think about that new mums should be prioritising in terms of their mental health, how do they protect their mental health, and what are the big hazards to watch out for in terms of your mental health as a new mum?
Caitlyn De Beer:
I, yeah, I think money helps so much with these answers, because, and so I find it difficult, because I think for a new mum, especially for someone who’s either going through something difficult with their one baby, or for a mum of two, because I found that jump particularly difficult, and, you know, if you can be seeing a therapist, or have a nanny, those sort of things are an enormous help in those seasons, and so, but speaking outside of those things, and I think the things that are, that I think that we have to prioritise, is to realise, first of all, that the season’s going to pass, and obviously that’s so helpful to know that it is going to pass, but then to build this village around you, and I don’t think you have to be extroverted to do this, and so I’m, I obviously come across very extroverted, but I need a huge amount of space, huge amount of space, I’m not even good with having people stay over at my house, like that’s how much space I like, so, but I think as mums, you really do need to pull in those people, and so whether it’s a school community, whether it’s your antenatal group, whether it’s getting a nanny, and getting a nanny might mean cancelling your DSTV subscription, but that’s such a worthy way of doing it, in order to have that extra help, whether it’s domestic help, or actually with the baby, and then obviously a partner, I think your partner’s buy-in is enormous, and if they really aren’t, you know, to try and have those conversations before you even get there, because these days, and I’ve seen this with a lot of women these days, we both are working, and now it’s equal ground, you know, now, like whoever wakes up is going to both, both, and so I’ve seen some husbands really step up to the mark, and play that role where they are equal to the mother, if the, obviously, if the mum’s breastfeeding, it’s different, but in waking at night, and those tiny things of like not being as sleep deprived can make you, in terms of mental health, massive, massive difference.
And so I would say obviously that, and then if it is, if it is bad, and I, for instance, personally, I had an incident where Sarah was about 20 months, and Noah was, I can’t even think of the age difference, but say like four months, and I was sitting, we’d gone out, Lord help us, why you go out when you’ve got that, but I couldn’t cope at home, it was just so much, and I didn’t have, have the help that I needed, and I went out, and these, to this like swimming pool, and it’s very shallow sort of swimming pool at one point, and there were lots of people, and I was sitting under the umbrella with Sarah, and it’s like a public kind of place, but like a garden place, and Sarah was playing in the shallow water with a little jug, and she was playing, and my friend was standing next to her with her daughter with Sarah, so I was totally watching it all, but I was a distance away, and I watched Sarah literally step off the edge, and just disappear down, and I was, I was watching it, so like I could get, I mean I screamed, and finally someone jumped in, and was so deep that they literally went under, but grabbed her, so she didn’t nearly drown, but I literally booked, and I can honestly say this, that I booked within two days to go to a GP to get onto an antidepressant, and it was just, it was like the catalyst that just said, you’re not, you’re not okay, and I’m not saying everyone needs an antidepressant, please don’t, because there are lots of other ways to get help, but if you do, then, then certainly get that to stabilise, in order to be a better mum, to then find the help that you needed, or whatever that is, and I didn’t stay on it that long, I think it was even less than a year at the time, but, and then you’ve got to wean off very carefully, so be very careful with antidepressants, but it made that difference, I still didn’t cope very well, but it made that difference, and we then hired a live-in maid, which was such a big deal for us to financially do, and we didn’t also keep that for long, and we don’t have one now, but there were little things that we really had to make changes, and obviously finances allowed, but there were sacrifices too, you know, in order to do that, but it just made the difference of allowing us both to work and, and cope, because it’s hard, it’s hard.
Meg Faure:
Yeah, so I’ve heard you say a number of things there, one is very clearly that support systems are important, whether it is a nanny, if you can afford them, whether it is creating a village, as you called it, or whether it is having your partner muck in and, and assist you, that support structure is obviously critically important. I also heard you say that you need to recognise when you’re not coping, and when you need either medical or counselling support, and I think, you know, we can put those two both into the same category of external support that’s outside of just a nice network, you know, it’s a, it’s a real structure that you’re going to put around yourself. So yeah, I mean, really, really interesting and very useful advice for mums to, you know, to listen to. So thank you for that. Do you think that your parenting courses cover off some of that as well? Or is that more around getting the balance?
Caitlyn De Beer:
I think, I mean, yeah, I think both. I mean, I could do the course now, and I have an eight and nine year old, nearly eight and nine year old, and I could benefit from it. I think it’s a lot actually more psych based. So obviously, my background was originally clinical psychology, and it’s psych based, but fun, but so doable, because I was a mum with young kids when I designed it. And so a lot is focused on like, how do you actually protect your mind, your thoughts, and getting in touch with your emotions, which is probably the greatest tool that I work with, with clients every day of my life, is helping them to know what they actually feel. And what do I actually need when I feel that? Not just, I’ve had a long day. And so you just open up 17 times, but actually, how do I separate those emotions and know in the afternoon that this is frustration and frustration means I need people around me, whereas tiredness means I need whatever, and that sounds so tiring in itself, but it’s not.
Meg Faure:
Well, I can tell you that when you first did the course, and you were running it live, my assistant, Michelle Bosch, she came on it with you, you might remember her from then, and oh my gosh, she just said to me at the time, she said, oh my gosh, that was just a complete life changer. So it is an amazing course, and I think I really would love to recommend it to mums. And yeah, you’re now walking the journey again.
You’re obviously watching your own mental health as you progress through this pregnancy, which has got its own unique stresses. You mentioned before we went on that, you know, it’s not been an easy pregnancy. There’s also situations in your family that are hard, that are putting pressure on you. So you’re going to be watching yourself through this pregnancy, and yeah, just sending you lots of love and really appreciate your work in so many different facets of life. The impact, you probably are not aware of the impact that you’ve had on so many women’s lives, and that’s, you know, a real calling, and you, you know, you’re living to it, which is amazing. So yeah, from all of us, we wish you the best with this pregnancy. I mean, maybe we can track you after your baby’s born, as we do with some of our mums, because I’d love to know how things go. So all the best and thank you.
Caitlyn De Beer:
Playing back at you in terms of inspiring us, there’s actually something you said to me a few years ago, also on a podcast, I think on my side, and I’ve used it so many times, and I always credit you for it, but I used it recently somewhere. I’m trying to think what I’ve just done that was with the big audience. And I see you said that you don’t always have to juggle balls and sort of anticipate which ball you’re dropping, or whether it’s rubber or glass, and that whole concept, you just said that it was healthy to sometimes put down balls. And I have literally used that, I mean, that’s like one of the greatest things I tell audiences, is that is gold, that this week, I’m not going to exercise, I’m going to put that ball down, then I can’t drop it. I actually cannot exercise, there’s too much, you know, else. And so yeah, so you’ve been very much that in all our lives, too. So thank you. And thank you for this opportunity.
Meg Faure:
Lovely, lovely to chat. Thank you, Caitlyn. And we definitely will chat again.
Caitlyn De Beer:
Thanks, Meg.
Bailey Georgiades:
Thanks to everyone who joined us. We will see you the same time next week. Until then, download Parent Sense app and take the guesswork out of parenting.
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