Pod156 Zoe Tasha Twin Birth
Meg Faure:
Today I am so excited to follow up our last podcast with Zoe Brown, who’s a radio personality and now mum to twin boys, and Tasha, a wonderfully experienced midwife who supports mums of twins as they nurture their little ones. If you are a new parent or are expecting, this is an episode that you do not want to miss. In our last episode with Zoe, she was 48 hours away from delivering her boys and had chosen to try for a vaginal delivery.
Today Zoe takes us into the heart of her birth story, showing what it was like to deliver her twins, one of whom was in a tricky transverse position, and how with the right support she was able to have a beautiful vaginal delivery. It’s raw, real, and incredibly empowering. We also dive into those early days of feeding, where we talk about the challenges of latching, and Zoe talks about her decision to combine breast and bottle feeding, and then Tasha offers some practical advice on easing into a more flexible routine, and we especially talk about night time.
We also talk a little bit about postpartum recovery. Zoe actually experienced postpartum preeclampsia, and we’re going to talk about the support system, and really how it was that she came through, and how her recovery at home has been. So whether you are parenting twins, or you’re just navigating the ups and downs of early parenthood, this episode is really an amazing chat.
We’re going to talk about trusting your body, really incredible insights there, power of a strong voice in the room, and not underestimating that support. So grab a cup of tea, maybe a little bit of a quiet moment, and let’s catch up with Zoe Brown today.
Bailey Georgiades:
Welcome to Sense by Meg Faure, the podcast that’s brought to you by Parent Sense, the app that takes guesswork out of parenting. If you’re a new parent, then you are in good company. Your host Meg Faure is a well-known OT, infant specialist, and the author of eight parenting books.
Each week, we’re going to spend time with new mums and dads just like you to chat about the week’s wins, the challenges, and the questions of the moment. Subscribe to the podcast, download the Parent Sense app, and catch Meg here every week to make the most of that first year of your little one’s life. And now, meet your host.
Meg Faure:
Welcome back, mums and dads, to this episode of Sense by Meg Faure. And today, the Sense is not so much by Meg Faure, because we have our guest who is a twin specialist. That’s Tasha Perreard, and she is a nurse in Cape Town, and she’s a mum of twins.
And she’s joined us today because she really has a very deep focus and expertise on twin births and twin babies and rearing them, because it can be a little bit of a challenge, and it comes with different nuances to having a singleton. And alongside her to take us through the journey is our guest Zoe Brown. Zoe is very well known to us in Cape Town, and she has been a presenter on Espresso and on The Afternoon Drive.
And we all miss her terribly because she now lives in Australia, but she has given birth to twin baby boys. So welcome, Zoe and Tasha.
Zoe Brown:
Oh, it’s so great to be back with you, Meg and Tasha.
Meg Faure:
It was just so fabulous. Our last episode, Zoe, you were 48 hours away from giving birth to your baby boys, and you had a lot of expectations that were super exciting to listen to, but there was a little bit of me that was like, oh my goodness, I hope it’s as amazing as you were planning it to be. And I think it’s like that for so many mums, where they have this vision of what can happen, but delivering twin boys by vaginal delivery is something that is very unusual.
So there was a very strong likelihood it wouldn’t have happened, and actually it did. And so today we’re going to unpack a little bit about your birth story, and then go on to the wins, challenges, and questions of the moment. So let’s get started. Tell us all about this amazing day when you gave birth to your boys.
Zoe Brown:
Well, you know, it was literally less than 24 hours after we had our discussion that I went into hospital, and they started with a balloon catheter to start the induction process. So they basically started off with doing a cervical sweep to check, the word they use is ripe and ready, and I wasn’t. So they decided to keep me overnight.
Hubby was there to take me to hospital, and then I said to him, I think you should go home, get a good night’s sleep, because I’m going to need you on like birthday being the 12th of March. So they inserted the balloon catheter, and I spent the night in hospital. What they didn’t do properly, I suppose, was put enough traction on the balloon catheter.
So the next morning, it didn’t really do much, although it did soften the cervix. So when the induction process started, they did the cervical sweep. I was probably a centimetre dilated, and they, I can’t say that by accident they broke my waters, but the doctor was doing a cervical check, and next minute the warmth, the feeling of warmth and weight just came.
And he was still in his formal clothing, and he said, oh, I just baptised myself. But he was a brilliant, brilliant doctor. For those who don’t know, the Australian medical system, I gave birth in the public hospital.
So every appointment that I went to, I never saw the same doctor twice. I always just saw who the obstetrician was on call. I didn’t have a midwife assigned to me. I was always just in the doctor’s care. So I was very grateful that on my induction date, one of the doctors I had met and liked was on call that day.
And then, yeah, the waiting process started. We started a little later than what they would have liked the induction to start. So we only got to the labour room at about half past eight in the morning. They broke my waters at about half past nine. And then shortly after 10, they came and did the epidural, because that was something that was highly recommended to do the epidural, only because even though baby A was head down, which is the favourable position for a twin vaginal delivery, baby B was transverse. So he was sideways. And they were completely okay with that.
And I was warned that as soon as baby A comes out, they will manipulate baby B through the abdomen, like externally massage and get him head down into the right position. And then it was a day of waiting. I still painted my nails.
For some reason, I thought getting an epidural meant I wouldn’t feel a thing. But I could still wiggle my toes. I felt my feet. I basically felt everything but the contractions. And that took me by surprise.
Tasha Perreard:
Amazing. So can I ask you, how far dilated were you when you had the epidural, just out of interest?
Zoe Brown:
I was probably still a centimetre or two. I wasn’t dilated very far.
Tasha Perreard:
Quite early.
Zoe Brown:
Yes. And then when they did the next cervical sweep, I was three centimetres dilated. And then they said they’ll come back in four hours and do another one to check how far. So there was this expectation that you should dilate. I’m not sure how much it is per hour, but I think they were expecting more progress after the four hours.
Tasha Perreard:
Centimetre per hour is kind of, well, it’s certainly the protocol in South Africa.
Zoe Brown:
Yes. So they gave me the synthetic hormone of oxytocin. I need to learn the medical names for all of this.
Tasha Perreard:
No, that’s right. That’s right.
Zoe Brown:
Yes. So I had that in and four hours later they came and I was only four centimetres dilated. So now we were like approaching two o’clock in the afternoon and I was only four centimetres dilated. And the doctor that I wanted to deliver the babies was clocking off at 6 p.m. So we were a little bit like, you know, we said to them, we are open minded. We will, you know, if you feel like it’s taking too long or if you feel like he said to us, you know what, let’s not rush this. We will we’ll check again in four hours time. That would be just after five before 6 p.m.
And if you’re close to, you know, being fully dilated or ready to go, he’ll wait it out. He’s not going to hand over my my file to the next doctor on shift. And to talk about the midwives in the room, they were all incredible. But there was also a change in shift around three o’clock. And I had this Eastern European midwife that was very much militant. And when she spoke to me, she was quite harsh. And I quite appreciated that because you knew where you stood with her. My husband, being the overprotective guy, he wanted to say something. And I said to him afterwards, I’m like, don’t say anything. I like her. There’s something about her that I like.
Anyway, she after they did the when I only progressed one centimetre more, she said to me, OK, Zoe, now you’re going to listen to me. And she said to me, I’m going to lay on my side. And she put a pillow between my legs. And she says, now you just rest. And I ended up taking a nap. I woke up at about half past four in the afternoon. And I said to my husband, I think this epidural is wearing off because I’m feeling the contractions. And I was breathing through them. And you get to manually also control the medication. So I asked the midwife, like, listen, is it possible that this epidural is wearing off because I’m feeling things?
And she said, no, no, no, you can manage your own pain. I’m not allowed to press it for you, but you can press it. So I pushed the little button for more medication and it didn’t do anything. And it just ramped up the contractions. And I finally understood what they meant with the contractions come in waves. And at about five o’clock, I could feel all the contractions. I was breathing through them. And I said to my husband, this is very strange. I feel like I need to go to the toilet and make a number two. And little did I know that was code for it’s pushing time.
So the room energy changed. They were pretty close. I’m not sure exactly how close, but it was it was waves that came very quickly. And next minute, more people came into the room. The chair hubby was taking a nap in got taken out of the room. Instruments were brought in. Half the bed got dropped. Legs got put up in the air. And then the pushing started.
So the conservative side in me, I think it was very difficult to have your legs up in the air like that. So for me, the only thing I did was I just closed my eyes and I listened to the midwife’s instructions. And it was about 40 minutes of active pushing. And baby A was out and they put him on my chest. He was born 11 minutes past six. And we were just in I just I was so shocked at how small he was. I just couldn’t believe he was so tiny when they put him on my chest. We were able to do delayed cord clamping. Hubby got to cut the cord and he got to stay on my chest for a little bit.
And then, oh, then things turned a little bit not in our favour. So my cervix decided to close up. So we went from eight, well, we went from fully dilated to eight centimetres all the way down to two centimetres. And this was all as the doctor was trying to manipulate baby B to go head down. He did that, but he was quite high up. And between the doctor and the midwife, they had, I don’t want to say they would disagree, but they weren’t seeing eye to eye with what to do next. The doctor told the staff in the room to call the O.R. We’re coming up in 10 minutes time. And that’s exactly what I didn’t want. I didn’t want to deliver baby A one way and baby B another way.
And the midwife was she was incredible. She was just standing her ground. And she said to the doctor, you need to break baby B’s water now. He will come down if you break his water. The doctor was a little bit hesitant because things could go wrong and the O.R. wasn’t ready. And in that moment, my husband just said a beautiful prayer. They ended up breaking baby B’s water and he came down and he was born 27 minutes later. So there was a bit of a gap.
And my husband still in that moment of them not seeing eye to eye still asked the doctor, like, how long can we wait? And because they were tracking the baby’s heart rate, doctor said normally 15 minutes, but he’s not worried because the heart rate is still OK. And that’s that’s that was quite scary because I had my eyes closed. I was just listening to the midwife. I was just following her instructions on pushing and and and, you know, breathing and all of that. But then I just heard my husband say when baby B came out, the cord. And then that’s when I opened my eyes and I could see that the cord was wrapped around his neck and it was pretty tight. So that wasn’t a very pleasant sight to see, but they were able to get the cord off, put him on my chest and he started crying.
And we were just like, oh, my goodness, both babies are here. Both babies made it the way we were hoping to make it. But yeah, it was it was quite scary in that moment when my cervix closed up back to two centimetres.
Meg Faure:
Wow. What an incredible story. I mean, I don’t know about you, Tasha, but I felt quite emotional there, particularly the part where you said your husband said a prayer like just that, you know, the anxiety must have been high for him. And yet you were being kept so safe by that amazing midwife who just helped you and contained you. So what a beautiful, beautiful story.
Zoe Brown:
Oh, she was incredible. I think any other midwife in that room would have been amazing, but I don’t think they would have had the guts or the courage to stand up to a senior doctor the way she did. And I’m so grateful she did. I’m so, so grateful she did. Story completely different, if it wasn’t for her. Yeah. And I mean, for me, the most amazing thing was they were like, there’s no tears. You don’t need any stitches. So for me, that was also, I think, a big relief.
Tasha Perreard:
Yeah, absolutely. Is this the first time you’re actually talking through your birth story? I mean, I suppose you’ve spoken to your family and friends. And I mean, as you as you speaking about it, are you kind of reliving it step by step again? Does it still feel so real and raw?
Zoe Brown:
It does feel surreal, to put it that way. My husband gave his phone to, because there were a lot of student doctors in the room. For some reason, twin births attract a lot of people in a room. There were so many people. I think there were two midwives for each baby. There were two paediatricians in the room. Each paediatrician had an assistant. So there was a lot of people in that room. And so that’s also why I just decided to keep my eyes closed, be focused on the midwife’s voice and my husband’s calm presence. And that really helped.
But yeah, it was surreal. He handed his phone to one of the student doctors and said, can you just snap a couple of pictures? And I was only brave enough the other day to watch one of the videos. And I’m glad we have that. I think moments like that, rather have it and you can delete it later than wish you captured it.
Tasha Perreard:
Yes, exactly. We did that for the girl’s birth. And every year on their birthday, or just after their birthday, we actually show them parts of the video when they were born. And it’s actually so nice to have that. Even though you think, oh, gosh, well, they want to see it when they’re older. It’s actually so amazing to actually just relive that moment. I mean, it’s a moment that you’ll never forget for the rest of your life. I mean, it’s just, yeah, I mean, I just get goosebumps just thinking about it. It’s just, yeah, the most incredible, incredible. So, so happy for you. And what were their weights?
Zoe Brown:
So the baby’s weight, baby A, who we named Jordan, he was 2.6 at birth. And then our baby B, who we named Luke, he was 2.3 at birth. So it actually surprised me that he was significantly smaller. They weighed him first and he was, he was the first weight we saw. And Jordan is skinnier in appearance. So I just assumed he would be the same weight. So I was quite shocked when they popped him on the scale and he was 2.59. I round up to 2.6.
So that was quite, that was quite lovely. We were in the room afterwards and my husband was holding a baby and I was holding a baby. And he obviously was on a chair and he just said to me, it was like the most surreal feeling in the world because the best way he can describe it was like the aftermath of like carnage. That’s, that’s what he said. Cause there was a lot of, you know, just, it’s, it’s a messy situation, but there was one midwife doing the cleaning up. They kind of left us in the room. We still had our playlist playing and we were just each cuddling a little baby. And it was really, really special.
Meg Faure:
That’s incredible. And we spoke quite a bit about what would happen afterwards and Tasha took us through what to expect in those first moments afterwards. How long was it before you could bring them to the breast and were you assisted and how did the start of feeding go for you guys?
Bailey Georgiades:
This episode is brought to us by Parent Sense, the all-in-one baby and parenting app that help you make the most of your baby’s first year. Don’t you wish someone would just tell you everything you need to know about caring for your baby, when to feed them, how to wean them and why they won’t sleep? Parent Sense app is like having a baby expert on your phone, guiding you to parent with confidence. Get a flexible routine, daily tips and advice personalised for you and your little one. Download Parent Sense app now from your app store and take the guesswork out of parenting.
Meg Faure:
And how did the start of feeding go for you guys?
Zoe Brown:
They definitely brought the babies to the breast. So we did skin on skin. I did skin on skin shortly with baby A as he was born and then when the uncertainty of baby B’s arrival started, that needed my attention, I asked my husband, please can you just take him? I want to focus on what they’re saying. And then baby B was put on my chest and we got to enjoy a little bit of a cuddle. So I had both of them on my chest for quite a while.
I can’t remember how long it was, but then we did attempt to breastfeed and get them to drink. Because I had gestational diabetes, they did also say to me, as soon as the babies are born, they have to check their blood glucose levels. So our little baby B, his levels were quite low, so they had to give him some glucose and they did a formula top up just to make sure his levels didn’t dip lower. And that was heartbreaking because they have to prick their little heels. And I mean, these babies are two weeks old and they still have these little scars on their heels from all the pricks that had to happen. And they were monitored every three hours for the first 12 hours of their life. And as soon as they got three good, clear readings, everything was good.
I did get postpartum preeclampsia. I had a bit of a headache, some blurry vision, high blood pressure, and they were very concerned about it. So I was monitored every hour after birth until about 4am that morning. Eventually we were like, can we just sleep a little bit? So we got one hour’s sleep. And I think that little bit of sleep did the trick. Because after that, my blood pressure was normal. I’m not on any blood pressure medication, although that is something they said I must just keep an eye on.
Meg Faure:
Wow, is that common, Tasha? I haven’t heard of that happening postnatally before.
Tasha Perreard:
It’s certainly not that common, but it has. Yeah, I mean, obviously, it can happen. But and obviously, close monitoring is required afterwards. And yeah, I mean, days and sometimes even weeks afterwards as well. So when next will you go for a checkup? Have you been to the back to the hospital yet for a checkup?
Zoe Brown:
So we stayed in hospital for three nights. The Wednesday till the Saturday, we were discharged. And I was very impressed with the post birth care that we received at the hospital. So the doctor came to the room the next morning, and he did a bit of a debrief with me to just discuss, you know, why why he wanted to take us to the O.R. He kind of discussed, you know, everything that happened between him and the midwife. So I really appreciated that we got to have that debrief with the doctor.
We got to they send a physio to the room. So she came and did an assessment. And I have pretty severe separation, which is to be expected with a multiple pregnancy. But she said to me nothing that a little bit of physio can’t fix over time. So I just need to allow myself time to heal because it was a natural delivery and everything went really, really well. She did clear me quite quickly to say, you can start doing some light exercises. She gave me some QR codes to to help with the, you know, just reconnecting the core breathing exercises that will get me ready to eventually get the abs back together.
Meg Faure:
Amazing. And then I mean, we’ve seen beautiful photos of you walking around the neighbourhood already. I mean, you’re seriously high achieving already. It’s incredible out and about.
Zoe Brown:
Well, the thing that surprised me, but I mean, I shouldn’t be surprised by this was shortly after birth, I really struggled to get out of bed. And that’s when I realised, but hang on, you haven’t used your core muscles in a couple of months. So that took me by surprise. The one thing they did do after birth was so with the epidural, they inserted a catheter. What they did do was when the birth was done and the epidural came out, they also took the catheter out. And I was still, you know, sitting on the bed and I was like, oh, I need to go to the bathroom. And I don’t know why in my mind, I thought I could just hop off the bed and quickly go to the bathroom. The legs were very wobbly. There was zero bladder control. It was very embarrassing. But I mean, that’s to be expected.
Meg Faure:
Absolutely. So Zoe, they’re about 14 days old now, aren’t they? And how are they doing now? Have they been, I mean, have they got different personalities already? And have they got a little bit more fussy? Because that often happens. I don’t know if you’re aware that the first 10 to 14 days are really what we call the honeymoon period where they tend to be quite calm. And sometimes they get a little bit more alert and a little bit more fussy as they get older for a while. Have you experienced that?
Zoe Brown:
We’re starting to experience the little bit of fussiness. Our little baby B, he’s struggling to break wind a little bit. So I think that’s what’s making it a bit difficult for him. Like he’s like completely like arches his back. You can see he struggles a little bit. He was also the baby that had a bit of mucus on his lungs when he was born. So he brought up a little bit of mucus in hospital. And that seemed to have cleared, but we just a little, he’s the small one. So I have a very soft spot for him because he’s the one that was 2.3 at birth, but they’re doing really well.
We, in terms of their little personalities, I feel like our baby A, Jordan, he’s got a set of lungs on him. He is definitely very vocal. I feel like he’s going to be the little ring leader. And he’s also got like a little person’s face and his brother is more of the calm, quiet one. Doesn’t really cry. So it’s already so sweet to be able to tell the difference between them.
Meg Faure:
I’m dying to ask you about the feeding. I mean, how, so you’ve spoken about the kind of first latch and that first experience on your chest, but how, how’s the feeding been going since? And are you able to breastfeed them? Are you feeding them both together or separately? Are you topping up with formula? How’s your breastfeeding journey been so far?
Zoe Brown:
We’re doing a little bit of everything at the moment. So it’s, it’s amazing now that the milk has come in. I think in the beginning you, I mean, I tried to express, um, antenatally some colostrum and nothing came out even in the hospital, the lactation consultant came and I said to her, can you just help me? Can you just make sure I’m doing it correctly? Um, and she tried and we tried and nothing came out and you know, it was one of those things she said to me, you know, some women can others can’t, but that doesn’t mean your milk’s not going to come through.
Um, the milk has come through and so has the hormones and the tears, but I’ve been, what was amazing being in hospital for those couple of days, each midwife has their own style of getting a baby to latch and way of doing things. So it was quite amazing to have all of them share their ways of doing it. And you kind of pick up what works for you. What I thought was funny was my husband was the one that was able to help me get them to latch when I tried to tandem feed.
So we’ve done a couple of tandem feeds. Um, I’ve done the one where they call the football hole where both babies, their little legs are under my, my armpits. We’ve done the, where they’re on top of each other, like the sideline. Um, we’ve done the one where gravity works in our favour, where I lean back and they lean on top of me. Um, we’ve definitely explored the various tandem breastfeeding options. I personally at home have tried once or twice to, to tandem feed and it, it works, but I need assistance. It’s not something I can do by myself yet because they still so fragile. Well, I say fragile, but they’re more floppy. You kind of need someone to just help you place the baby on the pillow.
Um, but so far what we’ve been doing with feeding be, um, if I put one baby on the breast hubby will bottle feed the other and it will either be formula or express breast milk, whichever is on hand. Um, but lately I’ve been able to breastfeed one hubby burps and, and keeps upright. And then I breastfeed the other one. So we’ve been able to do a little bit of everything.
Meg Faure:
Oh, that’s incredible. And it probably feels like you’re just doing that round the clock, you know? I mean, cause when you say, I think probably a lot of twin mums are thinking, Oh my gosh, when do you have time to express, you know, if you have breastfeeding and then breastfeeding and then bottle feeding, where, do you have time to express how you, when are you trying, when are you managing to squeeze that in?
Zoe Brown:
Um, I actually bought extra flanges cause I said to my husband, like, it’s just, you know, you feel like you, you, you expressing and then you have to sterilise everything and then you feel like you’re expressing it. So we just bought extra, extra pump parts so that it doesn’t feel like I’m constantly on my feet expressing and sterilising. Um, but I, luckily I’ve got a great breast pump so I can just put it on both and I don’t do anything longer than 15 minutes. So it all depends on, you kind of like watch the flow. If, if nothing’s coming out, I’m not going to force it. 10 minutes is enough. Maybe on that breast. Yeah.
Tasha Perreard:
It’s quite, um, just a tip, which I don’t know if you know the, because of all the bottles and the pump parts and everything, it is okay not to sterilise after every single time you use the bottle and the breast pump. So you can just get a big bowl of like soapy water, you know, even like dishwater of dishwater, like washing, washing up liquid, just wash it and air dry it. And then you just sterilise it once a day, because if you sterilise, you don’t have to sterilise after every single time because that just adds so much, so much to the, to the picture. So yeah, that’s just something that you can cut down on potentially if you are sterilising after every single use, it’s not necessary.
Zoe Brown:
Oh, that’s amazing to hear. Okay. Fantastic. Saves me a little bit of time, but I have to say since, since, um, yeah, I feel like, cause hubby went back to work after two weeks. Um, so today was day two for me of trying to manage it solo. He’s working from home. Um, and it’s not that easy. So yesterday was quite overwhelming. I think the first day like, oh my goodness, I’m doing this. I’m feeding them both. I stagger start the feeds.
Um, but the problem, well, I say the problem, the challenge comes when you’ve fed and burped a baby and you now put them slightly upright and you’re busy burping the other one. And then baby number one gets fussy again and you need to pick them up. And that, that for me has been a bit overwhelming. Um, but it helps that my best friend’s coming to stay with us for a week and then my mum arrives and she’s going to be with us for a couple of weeks. So that will be the extra hands we need. And then I think I’ll, I would have gained a little bit more confidence. They would have become a little bit more, you know, got a little bit more fat on their bones because they’re quite tiny.
Meg Faure:
And are they taking dummies? Have you, have you given them dummies yet? So they, are they taking dummies?
Zoe Brown:
They are. We’ve, we’ve, weirdly enough, I, when we were in hospital, every midwife has their, their preference. And we tend to have had quite a few midwives that were like, no, don’t introduce a dummy yet. And I just, the one evening, the one was, he was definitely not hungry and he was just making these little suckling sounds. And even though they were swaddled, he was trying to get to his hands. I just popped the dummy in and it instantly soothed him.
Um, so he loves the one style dummy, the cute little bibs dummies, and his brother absolutely hates them. So we luckily have a variety of dummies. So the one day when we got home, I just randomly tried a different dummy and the brother and he loves it. So now both of them, only after feeds as a soothing mechanism, do they get their dummies.
Tasha Perreard:
Yeah. Amazing. Sounds spot on. Sounds like everything we spoke about in, in episode one is coming to fruition. Um, before we finish off, I’d love to give you an opportunity Zoe, to pick Tasha and my brain on anything that has come up in the last two weeks that you, uh, would, would like to question us on or else about things that are coming up soon.
Zoe Brown:
I think our big thing is we are feeding them every three hours. It was recommended by the midwife because they needed to pick up weight. We needed to get them to produce more wet nappies. Um, and our baby A was a little bit jaundiced. Well, he was jaundiced, but not enough for, he was below the treatment line. Um, so she just said, you know, the more wet nappies they produce, the more, the quicker or eventually it comes out of their system. So I think we just want to know when do you, when can you relax the three hour militant feeding regime? Because if it, if we start a feed, it takes us about an hour to get them to, to settle. And then I pump. And then before you know it, I only have an hour and a half to myself, whether it’s to sleep or eat or do whatever. And then we start this dance again.
Meg Faure:
Tasha, you take it first and then I’ll pop in with my, my thoughts. Okay.
Tasha Perreard:
Yeah. So, so normally what we do, I mean, where, where we work, you know, we always recommend, um, weighing your baby and a week after they’re born and then normally on week two as well. So normally by week two, we’d like them to be back to birth weight. So we want to, obviously when they’re born, they lose a bit of weight. And then once the milk starts coming in, they start picking up a weight. And then by two weeks, hopefully they’re back to their birth weight.
And as a general rule, we say, once they’re back to their birth weight, you actually don’t need to wake them in the nighttime anymore. So you want them to have way more feeds in the daytime. So you’re kind of just feeding on demand, but you know, you’re on a nice schedule and the three, three hourly schedule in the daytime. But if they’re back to birth weight, which, which are they, are they back to birth weight already? Because they’re two weeks.
Zoe Brown:
They are, which we are very grateful for.
Tasha Perreard:
And what is the, what are their weights now?
Zoe Brown:
So we had a weigh-in on Wednesday. So, um, we had a weigh-in two days ago and our Jordan, who was 2.6 at birth, he is 2.62. So he’s just past his birth weight. And then Luke who was 2.3 is 2.5. So he’s going to be our little chunky man. Everything went to his cheeks.
Tasha Perreard:
No, I mean, the fact that they’re back to birth weight by two weeks is so fantastic. So you’re obviously feeding them so beautifully. Um, so, so really you are going to let them wake you in the nighttime. So you still set your alarm in the day, but you know, nighttime, we say like seven in the evening until seven in the morning, say you, your last day feed is at seven, then don’t set an alarm. You know, your babies are going to be your alarm.
So say if Jordan wakes up at 10, then you’re going to obviously wake up his brother. But if they go four hours in the nighttime, then that’s fantastic. So they’ll be your alarm, but also your breasts will be your alarm because your breasts are going to be used to being stimulated every three or four hours. And if four hours goes by and you’re sleeping, you’ll wake up and you go, oh my gosh, my breasts are so full. I’m actually going to want to feed.
So a lot of people say, you know, when I, when I tell them that, that they can let their baby sleep at night, they’re like, well, what happens if my baby will sleep through the night? What if they sleep five or six hours? It’s not going to happen. That’s not going to happen, unfortunately, because yeah, your babies will wake you up and your breasts definitely will wake you up. But, but yeah, put the alarm off in the nighttime and yeah, maybe even if you can get even just 30 minutes or an extra hour, it makes such a huge difference when you’re on, on.
Meg Faure:
And Tasha, you took the words right out of my mouth. That was exactly what I was going to say. I mean, I would keep going with the three hourly in the day, just because we, you know, they have very long stretches in the day and sometimes they will tend to have what we call day and night reversal, where if you let them sleep in the day, they’ll like go for five hours. We don’t want that to happen. So that’s why we do like to feed on, on some sort of rhythm during the day. So three maximum four hours, but I would say three. And then at night, exactly as Tasha said, let them sleep.
And sometimes they will actually do quite a long stretch and it’s quite surprising. And then they’ll go back after that long stretch to the three hourly in the night as well. So they’ll literally do maybe from seven until maybe even 12 and then they’ll, or even one, and then they’ll switch back to three hourly after that. And that’s really perfect.
Tasha Perreard:
Yeah. So often you’re right after a long, long kind of stretch like that, then they may even eat, might even get two hourly, make up for those feeds in a, in a shorter period, but oh, imagine five hours of, of uninterrupted sleep.
Zoe Brown:
Oh, we’ve just been, um, oh, I’ve just been so in awe, my husband, just everything’s been so natural to him. Like just the way, you know, when you, you do the breastfeeding, they’re like chest to chest, nose to breast. And then like, there’s this whole little rhyme you say to yourself to make sure you’ve got the baby lined up correctly. And then they have to take a little bite. And every, every time, um, the baby tries to latch in the beginning, I would make like a little hamburger sound effect. I’m like, and I’m like, okay, they did that. And then he’ll watch me from, from the other bed. Cause we had a double room and he’ll be like, you brought breast to baby, not baby to breast. And like, oh, I really tried. In my mind, I thought I brought the baby to the breast, but it just took me some time to get there.
Meg Faure:
But that’s what’s so wonderful about having a partner being involved in the breastfeeding, because you’ve got such a different perspective, looking down and looking at your baby where he’s got an outside perspective and he can see it from a different angle. So yeah, I mean, having a partner there, I mean, for almost every feed, it’s a game changer. So yeah.
Zoe Brown:
It has been, it has been a game changer. I remember when we were in hospital and he just said to me, I think you need to get some sleep. And he took the babies. He went to the midwife. He was like, two bottles of formula, please. My wife needs to sleep. And that was probably the best thing he could have done because we knew they were fed. Um, I got a little bit of sleep and it was just a win-win all around.
Meg Faure:
Absolutely. You’d been through a marathon. I mean, that birth was longer than most births because you had to do it twice. So, um, really incredible. But Zoe, thank you for sharing your story. I think it’s, it’s so real and it’s so much of what people go through, even with a, with a single baby, you know, that uncertainty and piecing it together. And you guys are doing it amazingly as a team. So congratulations on the birth of beautiful Jordan and Luke. And yeah, we’d love to chat again soon.
Zoe Brown:
Oh, I am here for all of the twin chats. I’m pretty sure there’ll be other challenges as they grow and develop, but for now we really just enjoying these sweet, sweet little boys. I’m hoping they won’t become too fussy. Um, but they really, funny enough, we also have noticed when we put them together for a little nap on the bassinet that they stay more content. They love being together because that’s what they’ve known. Um, so we’ve been, we have been advised that it is a big SIDS risk. Um, so we, we try not to do that at nighttime, but every now and then you’re just like, oh my gosh, they’re just more peaceful if they next to each other. So it’s, it’s, it’s one of those tough ones where, you know, you don’t want to go against what’s advised, but it’s also like, but that’s been working for us. So it’s, it’s a bit of a tough one. What are your thoughts on that Tasha?
Tasha Perreard:
Yeah. I mean, I guess it depends on how they positioned, you know, looking at the pictures of your little two together, they kind of sleeping nose to nose, aren’t they? So by the looks of things, or how are you putting them in like a spooning position or how are they sleeping together?
Zoe Brown:
We, we’ve got them swaddled and we put them next to each other. Sometimes they are spacing away from each other, both heads together and noses away. Sometimes they face each other. Otherwise sometimes it’s, they, they control their own little heads. They move around quite a bit.
Tasha Perreard:
You know, I mean, I think there’s so many other factors that contribute to SIDS. And if you are obviously keeping all those other facts, you know, I mean like putting your baby to sleep on a soft bed on, you know, overheating them and putting them to sleep on a sofa. So all those other risk factors are not in that scenario where your two are together. So they’re on a hard surface, you know, they’re not overheating and they’re in a good position. They’re not, as long as they’re not going to be rolling over onto each other and squashing each other. But at this age, that’s, that’s almost impossible that they’re going to be rolling onto each other anyway.
So I think the fact that, yeah, you know, in the day sleeps, you’re awake, you’re, you’re aware of them and you’re looking at them more. I think that’s, I can’t imagine that that would be a problem at all. And if they’re settled that way, I mean, you think that’s what all they know really. So I think as long as it’s done in a safe way, putting them together, it’s, it’s, it’s what, it’s what they feel like is normal and they will be settled. So I think, you know, you’re, you’re an intelligent mum and you are doing all the right things and you’re using your brain. And I think putting your babies together in a safe manner is, is, yeah, is, is the right thing to do.
Meg Faure:
Wonderful. Yeah. And you listening to your gut, which is wonderful. So keep going Zoe and thank you Tasha for your input today. Just been really useful. And yeah, mums, thank you for joining us again, and we will definitely bring you some more amazing updates of Zoe’s fun journey. Thank you very much.
Zoe Brown:
Thanks. Bye.
Tasha Perreard:
Thank you.
Bailey Georgiades:
Thanks to everyone who joined us. We will see you the same time next week. Until then download Parent Sense app and take the guesswork out of parenting.
Podcast
